Allt y Badi
Reported in the Roads/highways category by Sally Clark at 12:43, Thu 14 February 2008
Sent to Denbighshire Council 1 minute later
I live at the bottom of a single-track, impassable mountain road, known as the Allt-y-Badi in Llangollen. Many years ago, this road was one of three that linked Llangollen with the Ceiriog Valley. It is now impassable by anything other than 4x4s equipped with winches, the road surface having been reduced to pot-holes, rubble and bedrock. The fact that it is used as an international "playground" (see relevant web-sites) by off-roading motorcycles and 4X4s is problem enough, but with the advent of sat-nav, my neighbour and I are now faced with an average of half a dozen saloon cars and anything up to three large lorries per week attempting to nav]gate this route (we have photographic evidence of said). Every vehicle that negotiates the "Badi" compounds the degeneration of the road surface and, as a direct result of this , the drainage channel that was constructed to prevent the cellar of my property being flooded is compromised. In addition, excess water washes eroded materials down the length of the lane into the neighbouring Pengwern Council Estate. In spite of road traffic signs informing them that this road is "unsuitable for motor vehicles" and also a "no through road", drivers persist in attempting the impossible. Whereas we have repeatedly asked that this road be downgraded to a restricted byway or bridle-path, Denbighshire County Council persists in it's assertion that it has every intention of restoring this road to the status of "unclassified highway." We have documentary evidence that DCC accepts responsibility for the repair and maintenance of this "unclassified highway" in spite of the fact that the cost of this would, obviously, be prohibitive and unacceptable to local council tax payers. For each stranded vehicle, (especially heavy goods vehicles), that becomes marooned on the "Badi" there ensues the necessity of my having to spend an hour or more following said vehicle as it reverses along the length of the lane to ensure that it does no damage to either the Grade II listed walls of Cherry Tree Farmhouse or the driveway of my neighbours property. In addition, I am constantly having to deal with stranded motorists knocking at my front door asking for assistance. I am a totally committed Christian and will help wherever I can, but enough is enough. This afternoon, a heavily-laden Jewsons lorry, (carrying up to a possible 20 ton load ) following sat-nav, tried to make it's way up Allt-y-Badi to Glyn Ceiriog, became "stuck", entered (illegally) my neighbours paddock, thereby causing extensive damage. The police were called and expressed their "concern" that,after two years, the problem remained unsolved. ( Incident Number J02 8310 - PC Andy Williams 1295 ) I am appalled by the attitude of Denbighshire County Council and have contacted the BBC Wales Newsdesk with regard tin this matter.
I would appreciate your earliest response to my complaint. Sally Clark
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Updates
A temporary road sign reading "No Through Road to Glynceiriog" has been put in situ, supported by sandbags, but vehicles are still following sat-nav and using the lane. A mini JCB spent a day scraping the surface of the lower part of the lane and took away 7 wagon-loads of debris. I regard both these measures as temporary and relatively ineffectual - within months the drainage problems will undoubtedly reoccur. This lane needs to be closed to all traffic.
Problem still not resolved though Denbighshire County Council do appear to be looking at alternative methods of prevention.
Help! What are the new signs saying 'work to commence for 18 months"? We know nothing of this, and we live at the top! Any news gratefully received.
Glad to hear that DCC are to close the route for maintenance. And also are keen to keep it as a county road once repairs have taken place.
Central government provides the money for highway repairs, never enough, but it's paid for by all motorists not just local residents. Glad to hear DCC are to use some of their budget on long over due maintenance of this highway.
I use this route to get from one valley to the other and saw you on HTV Wales, its a road and once we start shuting all roads we won't be able to travel any where. I'am happy for my road taxes been spent on road improvements, You sound like a nimby if you don't like living on a road don't buy a house on one, whats your problem do you want it repaired or shut for good ?
They should either bring it up to full standard and tarmac it or downgrade it to bridleway.
Sally I'd like to have a chat with you about your hatred of recreational motorists. The Allt-y-badi is a highway, not a footpath, and has been for centuries. I entirely 100% agree it should not be appearing on Satnav and lorries and cars should be be attempting it, that's nuts. But it's most enjoyable in a 4x4 and as it's queens highway these users are quite entitled to do so, providing they don't leave the track.
I live on a single track road and many people drive past. Yes wouldn't it be nice if suddenly nobody else was allowed to use it except me, but I won't be asking the council to degrade it to a footpath.
I am 100% behind you about it being taken off sat-navs. I entirely disagree about down-grading it though to make 4x4 use of it illigal, because of local nimby's trying to overturn ancient publics rights for their own gain.
What is the current status of this road? Have the works been completed yet?
Just to quote you Sally: "the cost of this would, obviously, be prohibitive and unacceptable to local council tax payers"
Sally, you're in a position to speak for local tax payers, only yourself. I'm a local tax payer and I'd be delighted to see a portion of my tax go towards maintaince of all our public highways including the Badi. I use many of the unmade roads (UCR's) in the area to go about my business day to day and I'm very grateful they are there.
Yes OK many are unsuitable for the average little 2wd car, but this is the country Sally. I drive big 4x4's because I need them daily for what I do for a living. I've zero tollerence for the anti 4x4 brigade.
Sally, what you live on is a road. 99.9% of the UK population live on a road. It might be unsurfaced but it's still a road. It's owned by the road tax payer and should stay that way. I'm sure the local horsey types would love to see it turned over for their exclusive use, but that's just selfish. Motorists arn't trying to ban horses from the roads, so horse riders shouldn't be trying to ban cars from roads, which is ridiculous.
I do entirely agree with you about the wider problem of these new Satnavs having UCR's as normal routes and not allowing for different types of vehicles.
A 20 ton lorry attemping a steep unsurfaced road like the Badi is madness, and the satnav manufacturers need to revise their products accordingly.
I do sypathise about it being yourself who ends up needing to help these people, I hope updates to satnavs will stop people trying to use it.
I live on a single track lane that floods frequently and during wet weather I'm frequently out dragging a London tourist in a BMW out of a flood. Yes it is annoying, and I wish people were more aware of their own and their vehicle's capabilities before attempting something they obviously arn't going to manage.
But I won't be trying to downgrade my "road" to a "footpath", or a "Bridleway" to keep my horsey friends happy. It's a road and people depend on it and enjoy it, I've no right and would not dream of trying to stop people using it for what it is - even if it might nudge up my property price.
If everyone who lived on a road was able to campain to have it made into a footpath to suit their own preference, we'd soon never be able to go anywhere and the country would grind to a halt. I applaude the council for standing up to this kind of Nimby pressure.
I mean you no offense Sally. I'm sure you're a lovely person, but maybe you'd be happier selling up and buying a remote uninhabited Scottish island where you can make all your own rules and decide who can do what, where, when and in/on what. In the mean time though, you live in a house on a public road in the country. You could always move.
The alti y Badi has always been an unclassified road and is also classed as a Green lane originally a roman route. The route has never been tarmaced only graveled and shailed. This route has also been repaired by organisations like Crag and Glass made up with volunteres from various 4x4 clubs out of there pockets. Drainage has never been authorised for surface runs if this has been done then they should have been sunk and not at the back of a step and concreted over as they have been. Regards silt and debris. this will happen no matter the surface as there is a gradient, it may differ but it will not cease unless a full roadside drainage system is put in, this is not possible with the route material. Stone/slate, natural bedrock. A sign would simplify without this current circus. Suggestions: Not suitable for vehicles over 7.5 tonne. No wide vehicles. Height or width signs. except for access. Route information sign reading Danger;unstable ground media. these seem to suffice around the country why not here?
I'm an 4X4 enthusiast and theres nothing better than getting out into the open air after Mass on a Sunday its a great feeling to be given the opportunity to drive my landrover through some unseen beautiful lanes and roads which are time and time again becoming lost due to people who seem to have a hatred toward the 4X4 community, People are only trying to have fun and enjoyment on the weekends please don't ridicule any Offroaders they all know the rules and 99% stick to them. As for the sat navs well that's just plain bonkers that is the real problem here and is easily solved by introducing suitable signs indicating to drivers that its for 4X4s and walkers only I'm sure we can all live together in sharing this great lane.
excellent repairs have been done to this road, it is in better condition than it has for more than 30 years when I first drove it
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